Heritage Album - Celtic/Gaelic/Confusion - a question about heritage...?

Celtic/Gaelic/Confusion - a question about heritage...?

I'm somewhat a newbie at genealogy/family history, and I have some basic cultural questions to ask. My maiden name is Colbath, which I've been told is Ulster-Scot. It comes from Galbraith (lowland Scots, I believe). Also, my grandmother's maiden name is Kinney, which I'm fairly certain is Irish, with the "Mc" dropped. An online source leads me to belive this name also comes from Ulster. I'm having a great deal of trouble researching the Kinneys, so I really have no clue. Are either of these names Celtic and/or Gaelic? Also, I am unclear of the differences between the Celtic and Gaelic peoples. Can someone break this down a bit for me, please? Please only answer if you have experience in this area... Thank you in advance! ^_^ Surnames on my father's side: Colbath, Carson, Banner Surnames on my mother's side: Wells, Kinney, Austin, Striedel (German)

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The Gaelic peoples are the last surviving branch of the celtic race. In earlier history the Celts were to be found from France to Germany and all of the British Isles. Later, they were mixed with other races which went on to form different races such as anglo-saxons. When someone is referring to Celtic they're usually referring to Irish or Scottish because these are the only remaining Celtic peoples. Ulster is a part of Northern Ireland and those names are definitly celtic. In other words your heritage comes from either Ireland or Scotland. At this point in time there really is no difference between celtic and gaelic people because the only celtic people left are gaelic.
Maybe this will help to clear the confusion (or make it worse). "Today the Celtic people and their culture survive in Scotland, the Isle of Man, Wales, Ireland, Cornwall (SW England), Brittany (NW France) and Galicia (NW Spain)." http://www.shamansong.com/celtic.html "The use of the word "Celtic" is controversial in itself. The use of the phrase "Celtic language" was not utilized in the English language with its present meaning until the beginning of the 18th century." http://merganser.math.gvsu.edu/myth/Sept02.html "In fact, the very word 'Celt' used to describe the iron-age peoples of Europe, only dates from the 18th century." http://www.socialismtoday.org/41/celts41.html "Today, 'Celtic' is often used to describe the languages and respective cultures of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, the Isle of Man and the French region of Brittany, as many of the people in these regions have Celtic ancestry (see the Modern Celts article), but correctly corresponds to the Celtic language family - in which are still spoken: Scottish, Irish and Manx (Gaelic languages) and Welsh, Breton and Cornish (Brythonic languages)." http://www.crystalinks.com/celts.html But this site parrots the commonly accepted idea of Celts and Gaels being a part of a common ancestry. http://www.hie.co.uk/gaels.htm Do Scots speak Gaelic? "Figures published today in Scotland's Census 2001 - Gaelic Report show that, in 2001, over 92,000 people in Scotland (just under 2 per cent of the population) had some Gaelic language ability and that almost half of these people lived in Eilean Siar, Highland or Argyll & Bute." http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/press/news2005/scotlands-census-2001-gaelic-report.html I wish you success in your hunt. Have fun with the research. Perhaps some of the following will be of help to you: http://members.tripod.com/~Caryl_Williams/index-2.html http://members.tripod.com/~Caryl_Williams/Eire-7.html http://www.irishabroad.com/yourroots/genealogy/names/anglonorman/part1.asp http://www.wicca.com/celtic/links/celtlink.htm http://www.gaelic-scotland.co.uk/Genealogy.html http://www.musicinscotland.com/celtic_genealogy.htm http://www.celtic-connection.com/links.html#genealogy http://english.glendale.cc.ca.us/irish.html http://www.namenerds.com/irish/links.html http://www.celticnetwork.com/news/gaelic.html http://skyways.lib.ks.us/genweb/republic/PatAdams/scotresearch.htm Edit: The best way I know of to scientifically discover your ethnic roots is through DNA testing. Check out the Ancestry Project http://www.dnaancestryproject.com/
The prefix Mac, often times shortened to Mc means son of. The prefix O means descendant of. the Norman Irish Fitz means son of. Kinney would probably be Irish. However, you will probably find Kinneys from Ireland and Scotland. This is true of a lot of Celtic names. Also you have to take in consideration all Gaelic names have been Anglicized. For instance Kelly is Ceallaigh in Irish. Kinney is probably a variation of Kennedy. I know Canady is. In Irish it would be spelled Cinneide. Try http://www.hickeyclan.com/irelhistory.htm Also take in consideration not everyone with the same surname comes from the same root. O'Brien means descendant of Brian but there was more than one Brian that had descendants. On the other hand, people with different spellings of a name might come from the same root.
First of all to let you know I have studied anthropology and also have an Irish/Scottish heritage. Maternal grandmothers maiden name: McGoon Paternal Grandmothers maiden name: Gorman (from O'Gorman) Gaelic is the name of the language of the Celtic peoples though different regions use varying dialects. The Celts are the people who were indigenous to northwestern Europe in prehistoric times and occupied all of modern day France , Spain, Ireland and the British isles at the time of the roman empire which conquered most of these Celtic peoples. These group can be roughly divided into the Gauls (France and Spain), The Breton (england), Welsh (Wales), Pict(Scotland), Irish(Ireland). each of these groups had their own distinctness about them and the Term Celt is today considered really to broad to encompass all these cultures but due to the commonalities in language and popularity in common lore the term has stuck. As for your names yes the most defnatly are Gaelic. Mc and Mac are actually more Scottish in origin than Irish and if you believe that was the original version of your name you should keep that in mind. Kilkinney is another variation of that name and there may be others ( I'm not certain off the top of my head). Religion will tell you a lot as well. If your ancestors are from ulster and have Scottish heritage indicating last names then they would likely have been immigrants selected because they were protestant. If this is true then that would indicate a greater likely hood of a Scottish, rather than Irish family origin. In my own family the O'Gorman name is a classic Irish construct not Scottish and true to form that branch of my family is fiercely Roman Catholic ( numerous priests and nuns in there). The McGoons on the other hand are presbyterian which makes sense as the roots of that denomination come from Scotland.
First off, I must correct "Wally" in the following facts: (1) The Gaelic peoples are not the last surviving branch of the celtic race. The Welsh, Cornish and Bretons (France) are also counted as Celts, but not Gaelic (they're "Prythonic"). It's doubtful anyway whether the Celts were a distinct race rather than a culture. (2) Angles and Saxons were Germanic tribes who displaced the native Briton celts. The Anglo-Saxons were not Celtic. (3) Ulster is not a part of Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland consists of six of the nine counties that make up the historic province of Ulster. Anyway, to answer your enquiries: Colbath is another form of Galbraith, which was a clan of the McDonalds and therefore is counted as Gaelic and Highland. It is originally Scottish. Kinney is originally McKinney and is Gaelic, so you should do your searches under that name. Kinney is very common in Ulster but is also found in Scotland. Many Scottish and Irish people preferred to hide the origins of their names by dropping the 'O' or the 'Mac', in the face of anti-Gaelic prejudice, just as many immigrants change their names to more English-sounding ones now.
My Scotch-Irish ancestors left Ireland for the new world 300 years ago so I can only give historical bits. Kinneys would be Scots I think even if born Ireland but you need to remember that over time many people married and raised families whether it worked for their neighbors or not HA! If your Kinneys are still around and there is a living male, there is a McKinney/Kinney surname yDNA genealogy project for if you get stuck at some wall. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gkbopp/KINNEY/Research/results.htm There are likely other yDNA surname projects in your group. [There is NO evidence so far for Kinneys ever having dropped "mc" (and the same goes for any "mc"). Scots have no reason to hide who they are. This myth may have begun when Irish were intentionally run out of Ireland by the Brits and flooded so many other economies around 1850ish. There have been so many periods where certain backgrounds got job & housing discrimination, that was only one. Even LDS did it into the 1960s.] But don't start there, begin with yourself, your parents and grandparents' information then work back through time and history with each family generation as you find them. If you run across a particular research problem do come back here and ask. Oh! Take a look at the surname and place message boards at ancestry.com, rootsweb.com, and genforum.com. Rootsweb also has "matching" email lists with mostly different researchers.
Wow! You ask a really interesting, well informed and serious question and you get well thought out intelligent and very helpful replies. Congratulations to you and your respondents.
Neither of those names are written in the Gaelic form. Colbath is a name whose history on English soil dates back to the wave of migration that followed the Norman Conquest of England of 1066. The name is derived from the Old English word ceald which means cold and the Old Norse word Bekker which means stream. The name may also belong to the large category of Anglo Saxon habitation names which are derived form pre-existing names for towns, etc. (such as Caldbeck in Cumberland) Spelling variations include: colbeck, Caldebeck, Coulbeck, Colebeck, Coldbeck, Caldbeck, Callbeck, Calbeck, Coleback, Coalbeck, Callback, Coalbeck, Colbatch, Collback and many more. The name was first found in Cumberland where they were seated from ancient times. One of the first settlers of this family name or some of its variations were Joshua Colbeck who arrived in Virginia in 1664. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kinney is an Irish name. The history of the name Kinney dates back to a tiem before Irish names were translated to English. The original (GAELIC) spelling of the name was Mac Cionaoith (which sounds the same as McKinneth) People who were accounted for by scribes and church officials often had their name recorded many different ways because pronunciation was the only guide those scribes had to go by. Spelling variations include: MacKenna, MacKennagh, MacKenney, MacKenny, MacKinna, MacKinnie and more. First found in county Monaghan at Truagh where they were known as the Lords of Truagh.
My approach to your question is slightly different, although I dearly LOVE knowing more about such topics as ancient cultural groups, etc. DEFINITELY a key part to one's heritage, and certainly overlaps with genealogy. Where I do see some confusion coming in to your work, is "I've been told" or led to believe. In the broader topics, relating to ancient history, many things are open to scholarly debate. The records that MIGHT exist, are subject to interpretation, and not everyone will agree. Something we toss around often here, is surname origins.. these are also open to debate. There ARE sites online, generally those of commercial nature, that state certain things relating to a surname, which I have found to be completely general and without reliable evidence. This does NOT mean that there are not legitimate studies of surname origins. I refuse to throw the baby out with the bath water. Same applies to heraldry (not part of your question, but...) My general approach, is if they are there to sell anything, keep googling until you find someone willing to back up what they claim. And don't want your money to do it. What often seems to happen is that surname studies sidetrack genealogical research. Example.. grandma's maiden name is Kinney.. but I'd say that you have no documentation that her valid ancestors ever were McKinney. Finding reliable documentation depends on focus on the individual person, and locating documents to confirm those facts. It's my thinking that this might be where you are having problems w/ grandma. She MAY WELL have the background you are interested in, but genealogically, you won't be certain without "pinning" her down. The fact might be that with a tiny bit of digging, we could locate who her grandparents were, and even the church/ village where they were born or recorded. Same for your Colbath ancestors. I have one ancestor born in 1639, and know that his surname comes from an ancient village in Lincolnshire. The village goes back to the Domesday book at least, and I have ideas about the people who lived there. It's fascinating to me (I have tons of printed material on it) but I cannot prove the parents of this man, or his ancestors. I am running into the era when such records are very unlikely to exist. I hope I have not offended you... I just wanted to give a perspective, of how cultural and genealogical overlap, and how you might sort the two out.